08/18/2001
IWDM Study Library 
Ecumenical Dialogue Nashville Tenn.

By Imam W. Deen Mohammed
With Allah's Name, With G-d's Name, The Merciful Benefactor, the Merciful Redeemer. We witness that there's One, G-d. That's our creed, the Muslim creed. La illah Illaha We witness that there's but One G-d and we witness that Muhammad is the Servant and Messenger of G-d. Abduhu wa rusuluh, the Servant and Messenger of G-d. And, what follows of that salute to the Prophet a traditional salutation, or salute to Prophet, the last Prophet, the seal of the Prophets, Muhammad. Again, peace, prayers and peace be upon him. A dialogue, we've been engaging, in many dialogues over the years, mostly with Christians, but also with Jews, and, Christians.
And, I, over the years, I've seen organizations, big organizations, prestigious organizations, include Muslims in their organizations. Because, more and more you'll find... finding Muslims, present at meetings where, Christians and Muslims are coming, Christian and Jews are coming together to understand each other better and, support each other for a better world for us all. I, myself, am a member of some of these, organizations. I'm a member and a president, one of the presidents, of World Conference of Religion and Peace, and other prestigious, at least two or three other, prestigious organizations that are working for better understanding amongst religious leaders for a better world for us all, in the future.
I often say, this time that we are living in is The Day of Religion, and I get that expression really from our Holy Book, the Quran. The Day of Judgment, but in our Holy Book, The Day of Judgment if, I would say to you in Quranic Arabic, "The Day of Judgment". And, if you would say, "Well, say to me the Day of Religion.", I would have to say the exactly saying. I'd have to use the exact words, "Yaumi- deen." It is understood to be "The Day of Judgment", but in the language, Quranic Arabic, and I keep saying Quranic Arabic because you know we have Bible English, (laughing) and we have Quranic Arabic, and the Bible influenced the English language. and also, the Quran has influenced the Arabic language, the language, Arabic language and made it more classical and made great improvements upon the spoken and written language we call Arabic. When the Revelation came that we call Quran, but that doesn't have hardly anything to do with dialogue.
Dialogue, began, for me, hmm, maybe 20 years ago. Yes. About 20 years ago, I think, with Christian and Jews, separate though. At first, I was invited by the Christians who said the, learned and respected, representatives of Christianity, and then later I partnered at the same time. I'm sorry. At the same time, I was with...I was, being invited by Jews to sit with them, too. And then, some years later, several years later, the Muslims started to be more popular in the media as a religious body, and, in America. And, I think it came with, Mathru some of you might know Mathru, Dr. Mathru. Mathru, was on television and he was presenting, Islam, in its cultural picture more than in its religious picture. And, I think the media invited... television inviting him to do that, was announcing a change and a beginning, for Muslim presence. I would say positive presence, the negative presence or picture of us, but this was the beginning of a change, a turn by the media, to present us in a positive way.
And after that, I think a number of things occurred, I believe the Gulf war. When many people of the world, especially Americans, saw that our country, our government, and Saudi Arabia were friends and actually were having a kind of a partnership. It kind of changed the way that American people look at Muslims, during that. Arabia and the Holy Land is called the Sacred City, called Mecca, and the Holy Rite of Pilgrimage that we perform yearly there, made Saudi Arabia a very strong, Islamic country and, make... I would say make that makes, that makes them, Saudi Arabia, a very strong Islamic country. And, that being known by informed persons in the media, I think they, in their own way, transmitted that in their own language and in their own emotions and their own sentience, etc. They transmitted that importance for the relation... for our country's relationship with Saudi Arabia during, the during the Gulf war and after. that relationship didn't, didn't begin with the Gulf War, either. That relationship was there before the Gulf war and I think that's understood.
Getting back to dialogue, dialogue. I will explain why I think dialogue has progress for Christian, Muslims, and Jews to engage each other in dialogue. Umm, there are other reasons too, but I think that those, those reasons I've given are the strongest reasons for the progress for dialogue. However, there's a desire in many of the persons who I have set with in dialogue, there's a desire to be open, more open and I'm one of them.
If dialogue is going to really be effective and if it's going to do what we want it to do, and that is bring us closer together, it has to be open. Even those sensitive things that some of us don't want to say in dialogue, they have to be said. And, I'm happy to say that in recent, last two or three years, I have seen more willingness on the part of Muslims, and Christians, and Jews to be more open and to put on the table those things that, we think will disturb, or...or make uncomfortable our participants, who don't believe as we believe. We can't be that way. We have to be open. All the way open. Now, I'm going to maybe speak for about two more minutes and then I'm going to, invite questions or whatever. comments, questions, statements, whatever.
I think this is G-d's Time and G-d's Will that I said, The Day of Religion. This is the Day of Religion and, the world, it's happening because the world now, has become as Africa's people say, "One village". One small village, one village. And, I say it is, has become one living room and it's one living room with a big TV in it, (laughing). Television shows us what is happening all around the world. There are no more [people] closed out or separated from each other, not knowing what's happening in Islands of the, of the Pacific, or in Philippines, small places all around the world. And, wherever people are, television is there. And, television brings us the whole world right in our living room. We look at the whole world right in our living room. And in a sense, we all are in a living room because transportation, communication, and business are no more, national.
It's all international. Everything is international. The world has become international. And, I understand from scripture, Bible and Quran, that this was predicted that this is going to happen. And, G-d says in our Holy Book, "People, the people were one community." Now, those who understand Arabic grammar may know the way this is, this is, expressed in the Quran, it means that people were once one community before and it means also, that people are one community. And, this is a prediction. That's really a prediction in the Quran. It's saying that as it was in the beginning, and I think you Christians understand, there's some here, you know what I'm saying, "As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end", and that's what that statement is saying. We were one, we were one community in the beginning and you are one community and you will be one community.
So, now we hear the expression "One Community", "One World Community." Uh huh, so, I believe this, this great, coming together that has been in process since the first man was on this earth. Because, man was sent here to multiply and multiplying is going to eventually bring you all together (laughing). Because he's going need more room on the earth. So, multiplying is going to eventually bring you all together. So, I believe this is a process that started when G-d put the first people on this earth and now, we have lived to see us all connect, all around the world. So, we can no more run from each other. We can no more have our separate world, secluded and separated from each other. We have to engage each other. We have to engage each other economically. We have to engage each other politically. We have to engage each other. So, now that we have to engage each other, the religious people are saying this is a great time for religion now, to come and do what it should do.
And that is welcome, The Day of Oneness, welcome The Day of Oneness and say, G-d want us all together. G-d created us all together. G-d created us from a single male and female and made us one human family and we have to live together. Well, to me, this...this point, this point and this is...this interest should be the major issue for dialogue and the major point of interest for dialogue, that G-d created us to be one community. And, Christians believe that, Jews believe that, Muslims believe that. But we have our ideas that Islam has to one day dominate and conquer all other religions. And, Christians, there are Christians who have the same idea that if you don't come under their idea and their belief and their understanding of Chris Jesus and Christianity, you're out. You're out for good. You're going to hell. So, we have these positions that are taken. You have Jews that believe that nobody really can speak for G-d like a Jew (laughing).
So, so, we have these problems and dialogue is the place for us to, come peacefully, loving each other, respecting each other's religion. That's a must. No person should be in dialogue with a person, with religion other than their own if they don't have respect for those religions. Cause, we will waste too much time. I won't. If I know that I'm going to sit in dialogue with panelists or with the persons who were, born a Christian and I know that they don't like our religion, and don't respect our religion, I will refuse to participate. Not only do I respect Christianity, I love Christians and I love Christianity. Islam is my choice but I love Christians and I love Christianity and you can't have that love unless G-d puts it in your heart and then you have to read the same book that they read with love in your heart for them and you will come to understand the beauty and peace, the beauty and purity of their Book and their Bible, their Book. And, that will make you appreciate them, and love them, and respect them, and want for them what you want for yourself.
And, I'm happy to say to you that I meet Christians and Jews who feel the same way about us. They feel the same way about us. This is The Day of Religion. This is The Day of Religion (laughing). Now, I think I read, I used to hear about my father and the old, Imams, preachers of the Nation of Islam say that, they'd be talking about when the Judgment comes, when the end comes. They say it is going to be a great and dreadful day (laughing). Great for some and dreadful for others. And, when we look at this world that I call The Day of Religion, isn't it great for some and dreadful for others? (Laughing) So, thank you for having patience with me and I'm ready to receive questions but I would like for it to be, shared by Imam, and your appointees. Or comments. Yes, um huh.
Speaker 1:
Or comments.
Speaker 2:
[inaudible]
IWDM:
From St. Louis, Missouri? Look, please. You belong up here. Yes, sir.
Ronald Poe:
I would like to, ask a question. I am Ronald Poe. I am the pastor of St. Luke Christian Methodist Episcopal Church. I am, part of the Wesleyan Tradition of Methodism. I am part of the, what we call the First Episcopal District. My Bishop is Bishop William H Grave. there are 10 bishops in the Episcopal church that I espouse myself with, of which I have been part of that for all of my life. And, I was really thrilled to hear you speak with such power, power, clarity, wisdom, and understanding. You mentioned that there were some sensitive items that, Muslims have to put on the table and discuss to make clarity even more. Well, for more clear, for more understanding and more dialogue. Can you say more about what those sensitive things are that may have to be said or spoken to?
IWDM:
Yes sir. We have begun having dialogue and what brought us to dialogue was our, similarities. And, after having so many discussions, I, along with others saw that we weren't making progress, any progress. We had just come to a standstill almost for dialogue and, women, most were females, they would say, "Well, there are serious differences too." And, and a few males, "There are serious differences too." And, they didn't say, they didn't insist that we discuss those differences but gradually, it, changed from just acknowledging that we have serious differences, from, recommendations that we discussed those differences and I have no problem discussing those differences.
For one, for priesthood, we, like very few Christians, denominations of Christianity, we say Jesus is the Prophet of G-d, not the son of G-d. and, we don't say even, we are all G-d's children. We don't use that kind of language. Although in Islamic, I would say teaching, I don't want to say theology, in Islamic teaching, we do have the expression, family, like family, but that's something that has developed in Islamic, maybe a discussion, theology. That, to me, doesn't supposed to be there, it's foreign to the teachers of the Quran, because G-d says it plainly in our Quran that He never had a consort, or female maid, or wife and that He never had children. He never had children. Says if He wants children, He only has to create them as He has created those, all the men that we have on earth.
And, He actually referred most mainly to Prophets, mostly, to Prophets. So, we believe that G-d creates the person inside of the person. So, we believe that G-d creates a human being inside of a human being. That a human being is born of a woman in this world, of flesh and G-d can create the human being inside of that human, inside of that flesh. And, we believe that Jesus Christ is a Creation of G-d. And, we believe that he is the Christ. But we don't believe, like the Christians believe, or I'll just say like the Christians express themselves or express that belief. why do I say that? Because, I have been in discussions with representatives of Catholicism and Lutherans also, and I have gotten a suspicion, often, from them that there is another understanding, even in Christian leadership of the Virgin Mary and the, birth of Jesus Christ, G-d bless His son, peace be upon both of them.
I'm aware too, I'm a student of the Bible. I read the Bible and I'm a student of the Bible. And, I read too, of Jesus, how he spoke in the Bible, how he speaks in the Bible. And, I get the understanding that, Jesus, this is not to influence your thinking, I hope. In fact, I hesitate to say some of these things. Okay. Alright.
Ronald Poe:
Because the more you say, the more of my understanding is and I really appreciate the things that concerns me.
IWDM:
Yes. Well, I appreciate that. G-d be with us and guide us.
Ronald Poe:
Amen.
IWDM:
Yes. So, I have come to understand that these are, like many holy men, they can speak and at the time they're speaking, they don't recognize themselves. They recognize only G-d. So, they'll be speaking in the first person. And, I'm convinced that Jesus was such a person. And he spoke like that. Whenever G-d took over his presence that it was not Him speaking. That he was speaking only what G-d was saying to him. And, therefore, he spoke in the first person and people took him to be G-d.
We say from Islam," G-d is Greater," "Allahu Akbar." And, this comes from what we call Adan, or the Call to Worship, or the Call to Prayer. It begins with "Allahu Akbar." "G-d is Greater." I am convinced after years of study, that this Adan was inspired by a person who was aware of something that's in the New Testament. And, what does it say? "The Greater, The lesser is not equal to the Greater." That's in the New Testament. And, I believe they were inspired by that and we don't know that the Bible is connected, but we do know that persons came to Muhammad the Prophet peace be upon him.
And they said, "Oh, Prophet. We've had, we've had a vision. And, we had a vision that there was a Call to Prayer." And, he asked them to share it with him, and they did. And, another person came up later and told the same thing. And he said, "Let that be our Call to Prayer." So, it became the Call to Worship. It didn't come directly from the Prophet. And, I believe it's inspired by the Bible, by the Bible by that reading in the Bible that says, "The lesser is not equal to the Greater, to the Greater." And, that language is in Old Testament too, about the Greater, the lesser and the Greater. The lesser and the Greater.
And, Jesus Christ, as I understand Jesus Christ, and maybe that's why some of the, small denominations in Christianity, maybe that's why they say he's the Prophet but don't say he's G-d or the son of G-d in any other sense that all men are sons of G-d. But he was a Prophet and, in my opinion, I would say, you all are closer. If you say he was the son of G-d, you were the closest to those that say he was a Prophet but failed to say he was a Special Creation of G-d. So, we say he was a Creation of G-d. And, He created him without a man, no man touched [his mother's] flesh. That one of the touchy (laughing).
Ronald Poe:
I have, I don't want to dominate.
IWDM:
Well, no, they'll be welcome. We welcome you.
Ronald Poe:
I don't want to, by any means. Well, I have I struggle with a number of things and certainly, my struggle didn't just, didn't just start with my religious journey or my spiritual journey, but from a very small boy, I have been curious about G-d. Been very curious about G-d. And, so curious until I have, I was able to get some formal training, to get seminary training. Which was one of the best things that happened to me, in terms of broadening my mind to understand the, not just the Muslim religion, but also trying to understand other religions other than just the Muslim, even trying to understand Hindu, which is...which is a different way of thinking than Muslim. But I welcome this dialogue as I was invited to come here this afternoon by Suliman Aziz, he and I good friends, he's a Muslim and I'm a Christian and that doesn't seem to interfere with our relationship. And, it doesn't. In fact, the only thing that we haven't done so far is gone fishing. And we've been trying to do that for the last seven years, but we haven't been able to do that. (Laughing).
Ronald Poe:
And, and, his wife is my musician and minister of music, which works out extremely well and, and his family and I get along really well but I really appreciate him having invited me because it gives me an opportunity to have a better understanding of humankind. Particularly, humankind may have a different dent on...on understanding spiritual formations and spiritual understandings, than what I may have and what that does is broaden my mind and my understanding. So, even though I am a Christian, and a professed Christian, I think it would be foolish of me to be a narrow-minded Christian who is unable to understand many of things in the Jewish tradition because I try to understand that and right now I'm very troubled by the escalation of violence in the Middle East. I'm very troubled by that. So, as I listen to you, I'm the benefactor of wisdom and understanding that I wouldn't have, had I not come and sat down and engaged in this dialogue. Seem, seems to me that maybe you and I are, are doing all talking and maybe not.
Ronald Poe:
But, I really do appreciate-
IWDM:
I'm humbled by your respect and confidence.
Ronald Poe:
Thank you, sir. you mentioned, one other issue. How do you feel about women?
IWDM:
Yes.
Ronald Poe:
And, that is another touchy issue.
IWDM:
Yes.
Ronald Poe:
Not just with, Muslims, but also with Christians. There are still Christians, who do not see women in the same role as they see men.
IWDM:
Yes.
Ronald Poe:
And perhaps, and to some degree, I get a little upset with my Christian brothers who may not value the contribution of women as they do with men. can you speak to that? is that too touchy to speak to?
IWDM:
No. Not for me. (Laughing]


